Ayahuasca Healing Journey: From Depression And Loss To Spiritual Transformation | With Yasha Shah

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[SPEAKER_00]: It's amazing what can happen in your life when you make a decision to try something different.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe it's something very much outside your comfort zone, maybe it's something you've heard about or seen, and maybe it's something that you feel called to, because as they often say, when the time is right, the mother will guide you.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And that was my experience when I tried Ayahuasca for the first time three almost four years ago now, and it was transformative.

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[SPEAKER_00]: It was something impactful and beautiful and luckily for me, not as vomit and dozing as it may be for others.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And it's something that for people on their healing journey, maybe very beneficial.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not here to tell you what you should or should not do with your life, but I am here to have conversations with people who might be able to give us a little bit more insight about those journeys from a professional perspective.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And that's why I'm excited for today's conversation with my friend, Yasha Shaw.

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[SPEAKER_00]: My friend, thank you for being here.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Welcome to the show.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you so much, Michael, for having me.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I'm super excited to be here and share some stories.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Good service with your guests.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, absolutely.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Let's start at the beginning, because I think that before we get into your journey into helping people on their own medicine journeys, we have to kind of start with you and yours.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So tell us a little bit about your background and what kind of led you to this moment of choosing

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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, well, like most people, I was pretty much in a desperate position, you know, try different things, try to queue depression, ADHD, all kinds of stuff, right.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And I tried almost everything, I went to rakey healing, psychiatrists, psychics, you name it, so I was literally the last thing on my list, I was like, well,

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[SPEAKER_01]: I might just try this and see if I can get something.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So with a lot of hope and desperation, I decided in 2017, I decided to go to Peru for 21 days.

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[SPEAKER_01]: It's immersive experience.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I got there and it was very different than what I expected.

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[SPEAKER_01]: It was very challenging.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I remember after my first ceremony, I just wanted to go back home.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I didn't want to be there.

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[SPEAKER_01]: You know, and I was like, this is not what I signed up for, this is not what I want, and it was very terrifying.

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[SPEAKER_01]: But for whatever mischief reason, I decided to stay.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And I did another eight ceremonies there.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Go back home.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I felt like a million dollars.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I felt like my depression was cured.

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[SPEAKER_01]: My friends looked at me and like, wow, you're so different.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I felt different from everything.

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[SPEAKER_01]: It was different.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And I was good for three months, meeting four.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And then everything changed.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And I started falling back to the same pattern and it felt like,

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[SPEAKER_01]: even if I have a Oscar doesn't work in.

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[SPEAKER_01]: There's no hope, there's a chance for me and to myself back to the work and just continuing trying to hustle and make something out of myself to eventually that didn't work out.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And I had my big, to say, dark night of the soul, where I lost about $2.5 million in stock market.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And I was predestined and had some pretty nasty thoughts.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I thought this was the end of my life.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I remember they had called me dad and I talked to him and said dad, I lost everything.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And I haven't cried in years, and that was my moment, right?

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[SPEAKER_01]: So I decided to, and this is about like, three, four years after my Iowa's experience.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So, and then I decided to, okay, how about I go on this spiritual journey again?

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[SPEAKER_01]: But I wanna go to Nepal, I wanna go to India, you know, I wanna find the Guru who's in Himalayas, maybe Amazon didn't work with me Himalayas and some answer for me.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So I went there and I spent a year there.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And I found that, no, the answer is not in Himalayas either.

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[SPEAKER_01]: There's no guru that's going to save my life, but it was very empowering in the thing that I can't be sense of being real and acceptance of suffering.

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[SPEAKER_01]: It was a journey of disillusionment.

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[SPEAKER_01]: But then I decided to go back to the Amazon, right?

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[SPEAKER_01]: And this time, I went there to as a student.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I didn't just go there to look for a cure.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I was a different interaction.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And I got there, I spent months there.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I got initiated, but it thrived there.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And eventually, I found what I was looking for.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So, that's a bit of that all-curve that story.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And a lot of people look at that story, it's like an ask me's like, what did you go back to the Amazon?

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[SPEAKER_01]: If it the first time didn't work out.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And I say, for strange reason during my meditation, I had this vision and my happiest moment that I was actually in the jungle.

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[SPEAKER_01]: right.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Even though I didn't stick, it didn't transform my life the way I wanted.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I really wanted to experience that one more time.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I made it because I was in a different place in my life.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I was maybe thinking I was more mature or something.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I would be able to receive it to something.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Right.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And that was the case.

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[SPEAKER_01]: But still took a quite little work for depression to go away for a lot of issues to go away.

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[SPEAKER_01]: But I was very education and eventually

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[SPEAKER_01]: It took in my entire life and became the meaning of the purpose of my life and I decided to bring that medicine to work other people, work with indigenous indigenous people.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I tried to bring people to good medicine and share with them the things I've learned, the mistakes that I made and what it work, I'm like, didn't you?

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I love that.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I resonate to so much of that.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that, you know, to create context for people who maybe aren't familiar with Ayahuasca or plant medicines in general, they can be very healing.

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[SPEAKER_00]: They can be very beautiful.

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[SPEAKER_00]: They can also be very dark and very dangerous.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And you, you see that when they're in the wrong hands of people.

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[SPEAKER_00]: and you see that when people come in unprepared and you see that when the medicine has turned into almost kind of this quasi keeping up with the Joneses.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Hey, we're going on this high in glamping Ayahuasca retreat or the the other side which I think is probably

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[SPEAKER_00]: really dangerous is there's a hundred people in a room and there's a a shaman and two people to proctor it, you know, and so when I, when I made the decision to take the medicine, it was something I had actually decided to do.

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[SPEAKER_00]: about 12 years ago.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I had first heard about it.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And so I was at that time, was 29.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And I was like, Oh, I want to try this because of, man, I'd been through tremendous childhood trauma, been through so much abuse, tried every therapeutic modality.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Because like you, man, like, I was trying everything.

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[SPEAKER_00]: You name it.

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[SPEAKER_00]: There wasn't anything I wouldn't try, whether it was

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[SPEAKER_00]: rakey or acupuncture or male facial release or CBT EMDR ABC like whatever name it I tried it set the help help groups step programs ever I was just like anything to make my life somewhat better right and I had a couple opportunities to try it but

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[SPEAKER_00]: They just never went through.

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[SPEAKER_00]: There was always something weird.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And in fact, the second time, I was in Portland, Oregon, and it was literally packing up my backpack for the weekend trip.

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[SPEAKER_00]: We were going out to this beautiful home there in the city that was kind of in this great wooded area in Northwest Portland.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And for some reason, I text the guy who was running it.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And I was like,

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[SPEAKER_00]: Because, yeah, I'm unbelievably allergic to cats.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Like, antiflactic eyes, swells shut.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Like, they're six cats in this house.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And I was like, we ain't doing this, you know?

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[SPEAKER_00]: And so it would end up being another from that point I think eight years before I was on the plane on my way to Costa Rica, which was interesting because when I initially had my first book session, it was Peru.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And the day before I was supposed to leave, I booked this last minute gig to go speak at this huge event in Miami, and I'm like, okay, I can't go from sea level to the highest point,

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[SPEAKER_00]: in 24 hours and expect this to be a good experience.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So I ended up last minute switching it, they had a spot come open for the next week in Costa Rica and man, it was just unbelievable.

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[SPEAKER_00]: It was phenomenal.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And the one thing that I had

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[SPEAKER_00]: continually thought about leading up to the journey was just trying to sit in, well, when it's the right time, it'll be the right time.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And I want to walk down the path of

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[SPEAKER_00]: Just the medicine and the plant a little bit more because I want people to understand what's actually happening because there's so much misinformation one of the things in the reason why I want to talk to you is because when you and I talked a month ago or so one of the things that you were a really big proponent of was let's not sugar coat the bullshit that this is not a cure all that this is not going to solve everybody's problems.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And I'd love to explore that with you a little bit because I think that people are being disillusioned by marketing right now.

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[SPEAKER_00]: It's like the only thing I compare it to is like when doctors used to say it was okay to smoke cigarettes.

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[SPEAKER_00]: You're like, all right.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I get that.

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[SPEAKER_01]: That's quite a bit actually.

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[SPEAKER_01]: It's a big problem for I think I don't think it's good for the medicine.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I don't even think goods for people who are generally trying to create a beautiful experience for people

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[SPEAKER_01]: I think there are so many parts to that.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I share a story with you.

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[SPEAKER_01]: There was this woman that my friend recommended to me to support because she was in Peru.

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[SPEAKER_01]: She was doing master client diet as and I got to call and I was in Medellín and I said, hey, what's up?

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[SPEAKER_01]: It's not like my friend is in a very bad dog place I said, why?

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[SPEAKER_01]: She went there, she went to this place in Peru, she had a lot of medicine, master plant data, two months, and then she got out of her place, I don't know, she maybe she fell in love with this guy or something, and then didn't work out, now she's like another dog, but she cannot go back to Europe.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, okay, so she comes to my place, she's scared, you know, she's in a very difficult place.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I was a very unstable.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Now in her mind, she was like supposed to go to Peru, she was supposed to get the cure.

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[SPEAKER_01]: She's to be perfect.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Everything has to be manifested perfectly for her and she comes out of that and she doesn't get any of that, right?

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[SPEAKER_01]: She was good for a little while and she lost it.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I worked with her 10 days and finally she was like stabilized on this situation.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And then I remember it was a last day that I had with her and I looked at her and I said,

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[SPEAKER_01]: I have drank close to 150 times at that time in my journey.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I am not healed fully.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I still have wounds.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I still have saying that I feel like I should work on.

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[SPEAKER_01]: It's not gonna perfectly perfect.

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[SPEAKER_01]: It's not gonna be real.

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[SPEAKER_01]: You don't believe me?

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[SPEAKER_01]: Ask Anya, my girlfriend was next to me.

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[SPEAKER_01]: She has also turned as much as I did, right?

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[SPEAKER_01]: We both know there is no perfection, there's no perfect moment.

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[SPEAKER_01]: As soon as she heard that, it was like a switch for her.

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[SPEAKER_01]: She's like, oh, so nothing's wrong with me.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not wrong.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not.

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[SPEAKER_01]: broken, right, so to speak.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And that was the moment that clicked for her.

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[SPEAKER_01]: After that incident, that was before I started the modded retreats and the work that we do.

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[SPEAKER_01]: That became like so fundamental and important to me, and it clicked with my own journey, right, that it requires a lot of work afterward, right, especially people dealing with a treatment resistant depression, or they have some issues that requires extended work,

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[SPEAKER_01]: And they're told that Iowa skill is this beautiful medicine is going to do all of these things for you, all of that, right, and then this policy of keeping people expectation very low and bring them medicine to them and then exceeding their expectation and helping to keep that momentum going became like such an important part of my journey.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I think a lot of people who have like this they come to the medicine and they are finding itself to be in a dark place after a lot of time they come with a lot of expectations.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And that expectation big part of it is part of like we have retreats right now that they say hey come get your miracle, literally under website big you know.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And I've been in those places,

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[SPEAKER_01]: There are some fantastic human beings that work in those places, they'll do a great job with medicine, but the team that does the marketing or whatever does, is not aligned with that, because they're not medicine people.

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[SPEAKER_01]: They have not sat into the training and all of that.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Their objective is to sell.

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[SPEAKER_01]: They're objective is to make sure the cash flow is coming.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And there's a part when these two become kind of opposite.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So I think that's big problem that we have right now in the retreat industry at least to say, and we need to really work to make sure that is clear for people.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I did.

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[SPEAKER_00]: so much research on this that I could write a book about how to find the right iosca retreat.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And I mean countless phone calls, countless interviews like I'd hop on the video chat with guys like you, women like you, and I had a list of questions and I had, you know, I'd go read every review and I try to find YouTube videos about them and I would just dive and dive and dive and dive

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[SPEAKER_00]: And one of the crazy things, and you know this, I don't know that most people would know this, but the deeper you go down into it, the darker this rabbit hole gets.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, from everything from sexual abuse happening to people being taken advantage of, to financial abuse, to people like, God, the things I would read would be like out of control.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And then, you know,

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[SPEAKER_00]: I'll say this, because I think that any time you're mixing business with drugs, whether they are plant medicines or whether they're pharmaceutical, bad things are going to happen.

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[SPEAKER_00]: That's just going to happen.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Pete, there's greed, there is envy, there are humans at play here and humans are fallible and make mistakes.

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[SPEAKER_00]: But as I kept going deeper into it, I noticed there was a big differentiation between what I felt like were the retreats that had the best people's interest in mind and the retreats where it was like it's a money grab and you know of course I'm not going to call anybody out do your own research you know I don't even share where I went that's private that's for me.

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[SPEAKER_00]: locations that would host 60, 70, 80 people, that's when I noticed that there was also this sway of negativity around them.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And when I was looking into the smaller ones,

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[SPEAKER_00]: 18, 12, 15 people at the most, very similar to what you do, I kept seeing it was an amazing experience.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And so, I'd love to know a little bit about from your perspective, what are the questions that people should be asking, and taking the consideration before even choosing a retreat to go to practice and partake in this medicine?

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[SPEAKER_01]: We'll share with you something that I can tell you that about maybe 90% of people who especially experienced Ayahuasca outside of the Amazonian region.

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[SPEAKER_01]: They don't even know about.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Although, I don't think personal thing is like the most important thing, but it makes a huge different for some people, is that a lot of people are drinking paste ayahuasca, right?

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[SPEAKER_01]: This is not the fresh ayahuasca, the ayahuasca when it's made it crooked down, they're making it to paste, right, and then ship it to other countries where outside of the zone, and then they put the water, it makes the water with that, and they keep that people that medicine.

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[SPEAKER_01]: It's kind of like somebody likes their finest wine from Italy and somebody makes it into a syrup, put in a low box, send it somewhere else and you know, to put at some hot water or something to it and put it in front of people.

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[SPEAKER_01]: A lot of people actually do know that they're not drinking the fresh medicine, right?

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[SPEAKER_01]: That makes a huge difference in people's experience because there's more medicine, there's more of that spiritual energy and there's more of connection.

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[SPEAKER_01]: with the freshness.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So there's a first thing is that if they're especially drinking outside, like, I mean, the all places in, you know, United States, because we know there's some, I was composing how white, right?

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[SPEAKER_01]: So they're able to get some fresh medicine, right?

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[SPEAKER_01]: But not everybody does.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So that's a one number one thing is that where does the medicine come from?

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[SPEAKER_01]: Right?

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[SPEAKER_01]: Especially if they're outside of the region.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I think that's very important.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And the second thing that I want to people all this to ask and it's so important is that who is leading the ceremony, right?

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[SPEAKER_01]: Is this guy actually come from a lineage?

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[SPEAKER_01]: Because you need at least five minimum if you're very talented, but really at the ten years of training so you can hold the space, right?

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[SPEAKER_01]: There's a lot of spiritual damage that is done to a lot of people

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[SPEAKER_01]: Right?

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[SPEAKER_01]: So who is this person who's this guy who's lying to her?

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[SPEAKER_01]: Who's lying to her?

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[SPEAKER_01]: Who's lying to her?

17:59.799 --> 18:00.599
[SPEAKER_01]: What's a lineage?

18:00.679 --> 18:03.641
[SPEAKER_01]: What are the traditions they're following and practices they had?

18:03.701 --> 18:04.902
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that's really important.

18:05.822 --> 18:13.587
[SPEAKER_01]: And the next thing that I would say that without a doubt, there are two factors is that do they do medical screening?

18:13.887 --> 18:17.189
[SPEAKER_01]: Or did they have a form that actually asks people, hey, what are your medication on?

18:17.569 --> 18:18.170
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, good.

18:18.670 --> 18:21.852
[SPEAKER_01]: And then if they do that, let's say somebody goes back home.

18:23.296 --> 18:25.079
[SPEAKER_01]: 60 days after the retreat, right?

18:25.319 --> 18:27.702
[SPEAKER_01]: And they might have some psychological problem they're running to.

18:28.022 --> 18:30.466
[SPEAKER_01]: Do they have a hundred that do I have the contradiction protocols?

18:30.706 --> 18:39.257
[SPEAKER_01]: Do they have psychiatrists that are actually understand Ayahuasca, because a lot of times that people go to these places, and they're running to problem.

18:39.898 --> 18:42.519
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not the person who calls and asks for help.

18:42.839 --> 18:43.899
[SPEAKER_01]: It's their family member.

18:44.200 --> 18:45.420
[SPEAKER_01]: It's their friends, right?

18:45.640 --> 18:48.701
[SPEAKER_01]: Because they don't have the capacity even to ask for help, right?

18:49.021 --> 18:51.282
[SPEAKER_01]: So what are the harm reduction protocols, right?

18:51.542 --> 18:53.503
[SPEAKER_01]: And that, that's, they might not even need that.

18:53.843 --> 18:54.303
[SPEAKER_01]: I have it.

18:54.403 --> 18:56.804
[SPEAKER_01]: I haven't used it once, but it's there.

18:57.104 --> 18:57.364
[SPEAKER_01]: Because,

18:57.764 --> 18:58.404
[SPEAKER_01]: It's worth it.

18:58.464 --> 19:07.549
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not worth of being with so much problem to people's life, because it's not just that person, it's their families, it's their friends, it's everybody around them, it's going to suffer.

19:07.889 --> 19:09.610
[SPEAKER_01]: So what are the what's the plan for that?

19:09.790 --> 19:10.911
[SPEAKER_01]: Do they have that in place?

19:11.391 --> 19:12.832
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that is also going to be very important.

19:13.574 --> 19:13.674
[SPEAKER_00]: Mm.

19:14.335 --> 19:15.736
[SPEAKER_00]: Those are really great points.

19:16.116 --> 19:22.923
[SPEAKER_00]: I did not even think about the first point and them diluting it down, turning it to a pay-stating water.

19:24.544 --> 19:27.587
[SPEAKER_00]: Because I just never thought about why would you think about that?

19:27.787 --> 19:32.611
[SPEAKER_00]: And now that you're mentioning it, I'm like, yeah, that actually makes a lot of sense.

19:32.671 --> 19:38.637
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think the analogy of a great wine being watered down is a perfect way to phrase that.

19:39.017 --> 19:51.460
[SPEAKER_00]: and you lose control over it, right, because in my experiences that whenever someone was leading that they had a partake in of that medicine, so they knew and they could effectively give a dosage, right?

19:51.500 --> 19:52.800
[SPEAKER_00]: So I think that's an amazing point.

19:53.460 --> 20:07.624
[SPEAKER_00]: The other thing that I was thinking about as as you were talking was the reason I actually settled on the place that I went was one, they had a medical intake, two, they had a doctor, three, they had a psychiatrist and four,

20:09.725 --> 20:15.809
[SPEAKER_00]: And they had everything in place to make this be an experience very much like what you guys do, right?

20:16.309 --> 20:20.773
[SPEAKER_00]: And they very much had it be this experience for people to feel safe.

20:21.453 --> 20:28.498
[SPEAKER_00]: Because I think that one of the worst things, like I, you know, ensure maybe 40, 50 years ago this was the norm.

20:29.079 --> 20:34.583
[SPEAKER_00]: You take a boat down the Amazon River, you go to a hut, you're sleeping with the spiders and snakes.

20:35.223 --> 20:37.364
[SPEAKER_00]: Good fucking good luck to ya.

20:37.724 --> 20:39.984
[SPEAKER_00]: But you know, that's not the world that we live in anymore.

20:40.244 --> 20:58.609
[SPEAKER_00]: And, and I think that Sometimes the luxury can be sold as this idea of of healing, but it's not because I had a friend who years ago They went and did medicine and they came back and they were completely different person and not in a good way at all.

20:59.169 --> 21:00.730
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, you talked about this

21:01.672 --> 21:05.334
[SPEAKER_00]: the energetic damage, the spiritual damage that could happen to people.

21:05.874 --> 21:07.315
[SPEAKER_00]: I saw that happen to him.

21:07.996 --> 21:10.517
[SPEAKER_00]: And even all these years later, he's still not the same.

21:10.657 --> 21:14.519
[SPEAKER_00]: He will never be the person he was prior to taking the medicine, you know?

21:15.280 --> 21:24.085
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that for whatever reason, there's this kind of woo woo hippie mentality that goes along with doing this.

21:24.965 --> 21:26.547
[SPEAKER_00]: And people are like, oh, no, it's fine.

21:26.567 --> 21:27.268
[SPEAKER_00]: You'll come out of it.

21:27.308 --> 21:28.048
[SPEAKER_00]: You'll be okay.

21:28.089 --> 21:29.950
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, it's just let the medicine do its thing.

21:29.990 --> 21:32.093
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm also like at the same time.

21:32.113 --> 21:33.294
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think so.

21:33.694 --> 21:39.540
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that when your damage spiritually and energetically it stays with you.

21:40.241 --> 21:52.780
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I'm just curious because I want to talk about that element of it because I think early on, before I had taken any medicine of any kind, before I tried name it, before anything.

21:52.880 --> 21:55.904
[SPEAKER_00]: I had always just been like, oh, this is hippie bullshit.

21:56.425 --> 22:03.192
[SPEAKER_00]: the, those syllables, the, the Ibergaines, the DMTs, the Iowa, I'm like, this is bullshit.

22:03.232 --> 22:03.973
[SPEAKER_00]: This doesn't work.

22:04.053 --> 22:08.117
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, I've tried almost all of them, and I know that to be very different.

22:08.777 --> 22:18.447
[SPEAKER_00]: The thing I didn't understand until I was kind of in the experiences of each of these were the, the spiritual and energetic experiences that I had.

22:19.388 --> 22:34.590
[SPEAKER_00]: talk about that because if if I wanted to just dismay maybe one thing in this part of the conversation it's that like this is real like dude I when I took I wasca man I touched the fucking stars and like you can't tell me I'd I didn't you know

22:36.710 --> 22:45.235
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's really important to talk about that because I had some few gas resistance in my retreat, so that became a more important point for me even to talk about that.

22:45.255 --> 23:02.104
[SPEAKER_01]: That had this idea that I lost a simply like it by your hacking tool or longevity something, but my relationship with my teachers in Peru and Colombian with comes up to try is that I asked somebody, hey, what do you think is trauma?

23:02.784 --> 23:03.004
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.

23:03.344 --> 23:07.987
[SPEAKER_01]: If I lesser to govern my day, I'm going to get completely different understanding of, you know, trauma.

23:08.488 --> 23:12.290
[SPEAKER_01]: But if I talk to a native healer and say, hey, what is trauma?

23:12.690 --> 23:17.173
[SPEAKER_01]: A lot of time they tell me is, uh, it's like part of your soul was missing.

23:17.313 --> 23:17.994
[SPEAKER_01]: It was lost.

23:18.934 --> 23:19.715
[SPEAKER_01]: They have to go get it.

23:20.598 --> 23:20.818
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.

23:21.459 --> 23:24.281
[SPEAKER_01]: And when you read about like, okay, what is that?

23:24.341 --> 23:26.222
[SPEAKER_01]: What is people do with Jaya Wasta?

23:26.603 --> 23:35.770
[SPEAKER_01]: And then you're going to their community, you're going to stay in the reserves and just look and you realize that it's not all about healing either.

23:36.450 --> 23:51.953
[SPEAKER_01]: Right, because they use it to do hunting to go find where am I supposed to find my meal in a jungle, where they can find other medicine plants that talk to their ancestors to help their soul to pass through all kinds of stuff and also there's a darker side.

24:00.095 --> 24:05.879
[SPEAKER_01]: very negative stuff, right, over jealousy, over, oh, this my sister is getting more clients.

24:06.559 --> 24:08.200
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not fair to me and my family.

24:08.240 --> 24:11.682
[SPEAKER_01]: Here's some energetic darts, I told a central urge.

24:11.782 --> 24:16.265
[SPEAKER_01]: There's a lot of that also going on that a lot of people doing.

24:16.545 --> 24:18.246
[SPEAKER_01]: Pay attention because they stuck with this.

24:18.587 --> 24:23.350
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, this is DMT and this is a DMN default mode network.

24:23.431 --> 24:24.171
[SPEAKER_01]: It helps with that.

24:24.191 --> 24:31.157
[SPEAKER_01]: But there's a full spiritual dimension that goes around it and for them a lot of time

24:41.965 --> 24:45.846
[SPEAKER_01]: they see things the way their ancestors are teach your taught them.

24:45.906 --> 24:49.567
[SPEAKER_01]: I think there is an spiritual dimension in healing of trauma.

24:49.867 --> 24:55.009
[SPEAKER_01]: They're working with their thing grow and there's a lot of time that's why people do a lot of different things, right?

24:55.249 --> 25:01.050
[SPEAKER_01]: That makes sense, scientific sense, but they're not getting any of it, because the issue is in a spiritual energetic thing.

25:01.350 --> 25:07.872
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's why they go to do these things and they get some result that they're even expecting, because they record spiritual healing.

25:08.312 --> 25:18.678
[SPEAKER_01]: So I think that part is very important to pay attention to because that allows you to realize, oh, okay, I should really also be safe about that too.

25:19.198 --> 25:22.500
[SPEAKER_01]: Who are these people that I'm sitting with?

25:22.540 --> 25:23.401
[SPEAKER_01]: What is the lineage?

25:23.461 --> 25:24.861
[SPEAKER_01]: Are they God worshiping people?

25:24.881 --> 25:26.062
[SPEAKER_01]: Are they what's going on?

25:26.462 --> 25:29.564
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's something that I feel often is not also talked about.

25:31.120 --> 25:33.002
[SPEAKER_00]: Hmm, that's a great point.

25:33.623 --> 25:34.804
[SPEAKER_00]: That's a really great point.

25:34.904 --> 25:42.371
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I did my ceremony with the Shippipo people and it was just this really beautiful, very long nights.

25:42.492 --> 25:45.855
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, do some of our nights were literally like 13, 14 hours long.

25:46.355 --> 25:48.137
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's what the small group, again, we were, I think,

25:48.938 --> 25:50.639
[SPEAKER_00]: 14, maybe 16 of us.

25:50.679 --> 25:51.639
[SPEAKER_00]: We're a very small group.

25:51.999 --> 25:58.822
[SPEAKER_00]: But there were five, there were multiple shamans and then five proctors.

25:59.242 --> 26:02.823
[SPEAKER_00]: And so like every two people had someone with them.

26:03.363 --> 26:06.985
[SPEAKER_00]: And dude, I have not shared this story on the podcast.

26:07.505 --> 26:09.286
[SPEAKER_00]: Very few people actually know this.

26:10.006 --> 26:11.126
[SPEAKER_00]: On the third night,

26:13.107 --> 26:20.931
[SPEAKER_00]: I felt the overwhelming sense of all of the energy of every single soul in that room.

26:22.012 --> 26:25.154
[SPEAKER_00]: And it was crushing me like a weight.

26:25.274 --> 26:26.594
[SPEAKER_00]: Like I can't even explain it.

26:26.835 --> 26:31.037
[SPEAKER_00]: Like I felt like the weight of 10,000 pounds on me.

26:31.457 --> 26:36.140
[SPEAKER_00]: And I could just feel all the pain and all the energy and all of the things around all of the people.

26:37.180 --> 26:39.022
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm an empath by nature.

26:39.142 --> 26:41.745
[SPEAKER_00]: Like it's something it took me a long time to understand.

26:42.386 --> 26:45.850
[SPEAKER_00]: And I've known that to now become really a bit of a superpower.

26:46.270 --> 26:54.900
[SPEAKER_00]: But in that moment it was so overwhelming and the trauma needed to come and sit with me and take and literally he like sucked the inner.

26:55.060 --> 26:56.321
[SPEAKER_00]: There's a part where we lose people.

26:56.341 --> 26:57.002
[SPEAKER_00]: I already know that.

26:57.823 --> 27:23.076
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know, as you were there, I get a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit

27:23.236 --> 27:24.617
[SPEAKER_00]: I've never experienced anything like that.

27:24.957 --> 27:27.099
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a fucking craziest thing I've ever experienced in my life.

27:27.659 --> 27:30.020
[SPEAKER_00]: And I am, you got to understand this about me.

27:30.401 --> 27:38.025
[SPEAKER_00]: I am the most fucking type, a rational analytical person that you will ever meet in your life.

27:38.326 --> 27:40.547
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, you tell me about something.

27:40.587 --> 27:41.828
[SPEAKER_00]: I need you to tell me why.

27:42.028 --> 27:44.029
[SPEAKER_00]: I do not believe it until I see it.

27:44.209 --> 27:45.150
[SPEAKER_00]: I am a skeptic.

27:46.030 --> 27:47.151
[SPEAKER_00]: I am by nature.

27:47.171 --> 27:48.172
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't believe it.

27:48.632 --> 27:49.573
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm in this moment.

27:50.293 --> 27:54.275
[SPEAKER_00]: Not to mention all the other moments that happen in their tune are like, oh my god, this is so real.

27:55.196 --> 28:05.521
[SPEAKER_00]: Talk to me about the I want to go deeper into the the spiritual side of this a little bit because I don't think people really understand it and I don't know that will ever articulate it's kind of like explaining sex.

28:05.541 --> 28:07.562
[SPEAKER_00]: How do you explain sex to someone who's over.

28:07.582 --> 28:11.124
[SPEAKER_00]: You're like the greatest thing fucking of all time.

28:11.544 --> 28:16.107
[SPEAKER_00]: The closest thing you know to reading birthday cake like we're not talking the same conversation.

28:16.527 --> 28:19.110
[SPEAKER_00]: So dive into that a little bit more.

28:19.150 --> 28:23.135
[SPEAKER_00]: Talk about the spiritual connection, what happens with Ayahuasca?

28:23.175 --> 28:25.638
[SPEAKER_00]: What is it that's connecting us closer to Mother Nature?

28:25.658 --> 28:28.842
[SPEAKER_00]: What are the things that are transpiring in that space?

28:30.032 --> 28:35.777
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think a little bit of like a origin story of Ayahuasca, you know, if you talk to different tribes, you get different stories.

28:36.417 --> 28:38.919
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, anybody walked into the Amazon rainforest.

28:38.939 --> 28:40.020
[SPEAKER_01]: You're walking there five minutes.

28:40.040 --> 28:40.781
[SPEAKER_01]: You're going to get lost.

28:41.161 --> 28:42.803
[SPEAKER_01]: It's so everything looks the same.

28:43.123 --> 28:44.344
[SPEAKER_01]: All the plants look the same.

28:44.584 --> 28:45.585
[SPEAKER_01]: You're tossed around tree.

28:45.705 --> 28:47.086
[SPEAKER_01]: You can just die right there.

28:47.246 --> 28:47.587
[SPEAKER_01]: That's it.

28:47.607 --> 28:48.668
[SPEAKER_01]: You tossed around plant.

28:48.688 --> 28:49.068
[SPEAKER_01]: You're dead.

28:50.009 --> 28:55.834
[SPEAKER_01]: It's all kinds of things, snakes, every bird mosquitoes, it's crazy, it's super dangerous.

28:56.454 --> 29:00.898
[SPEAKER_01]: But it's rather kind of fun too, at some point now if you're going to go there and see something new and exciting.

29:00.978 --> 29:06.143
[SPEAKER_01]: But it is difficult, like there's about 80,000 species of plants in the Amazon.

29:06.483 --> 29:17.725
[SPEAKER_01]: As you meet these two, particularly, I wasksharkruna, or I wasksharkruna in Colombia, in the D-2, one of the Emilio inhibitor, and the other one is a DMT, so they can actually get to the brain to get the other way.

29:17.745 --> 29:18.505
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not going to get it.

29:18.886 --> 29:27.347
[SPEAKER_01]: So how to help these guys need to go into the jungle, find these two exact client, put them together, and then you will be able to have all of these stuff, right?

29:27.727 --> 29:30.468
[SPEAKER_01]: It's the combination, it's just too many, say, possible.

29:31.188 --> 29:32.509
[SPEAKER_01]: And I mean, I saw how they got it.

29:32.569 --> 29:34.531
[SPEAKER_01]: They give you all kinds of crazy stories, right?

29:34.931 --> 29:39.114
[SPEAKER_01]: They tell you there was a guy who we see the prophecy, and then he turned into Ayahuasca.

29:39.415 --> 29:43.078
[SPEAKER_01]: So when we're drinking Ayahuasca, we're drinking the blood of this great healer.

29:43.458 --> 29:45.239
[SPEAKER_01]: There's another version of it that we'll talk about.

29:45.279 --> 29:49.122
[SPEAKER_01]: Or there was a woman, and she kept birth to Ayahuasca in a different part of her body.

29:49.142 --> 29:50.183
[SPEAKER_01]: He became different plants.

29:50.544 --> 29:54.487
[SPEAKER_01]: There's some of the person who's a prophecy, we're praying to Tobacco and Tobacco gave us that.

29:54.687 --> 29:55.828
[SPEAKER_01]: But every single time,

29:56.188 --> 30:05.271
[SPEAKER_01]: There's this idea that the recipe of the know-how came from some divine source and they got it and then they were able to do that.

30:05.751 --> 30:20.156
[SPEAKER_01]: And when you look at that, when you understand that part that to me, like wish was more crazy, it's really going to the Amazon and at the time that people they're probably already just to survive and get food and that tribal warfare isn't all that.

30:20.276 --> 30:22.356
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, I just want to experiment with plants and get high.

30:22.456 --> 30:23.457
[SPEAKER_01]: Like they're not going to do that.

30:23.477 --> 30:24.517
[SPEAKER_01]: That doesn't make any sense.

30:24.897 --> 30:33.720
[SPEAKER_01]: There's no rational sense to me, the idea of that there was a divine source that they gave it to people, makes more sense than that, because that's as out of...

30:34.819 --> 30:46.407
[SPEAKER_01]: perspective for me, I don't know, maybe some people would go with that idea that they just experimented and randomly they figure that, oh, you can get higher or have visions and all with Iowa's stuff.

30:46.828 --> 30:53.172
[SPEAKER_01]: So then we look at that part of it, then we understand it, we connect to Iowa's to that way and I've seen it.

30:53.432 --> 30:55.714
[SPEAKER_01]: I have people who are very rational logical.

30:55.754 --> 30:58.476
[SPEAKER_01]: That's what we made this video called Iowa's Go framework.

30:58.736 --> 30:59.397
[SPEAKER_01]: We just literally

31:02.959 --> 31:08.344
[SPEAKER_01]: What I'm going too much in this story is on a lot because we know it's going to be like, oh, okay, two minutes, I'm done.

31:08.424 --> 31:10.246
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't want to listen to the rest of it.

31:10.266 --> 31:10.887
[SPEAKER_01]: So we made that.

31:10.907 --> 31:13.329
[SPEAKER_01]: And people, you know, start connecting with that.

31:13.710 --> 31:20.096
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think that the only way as you said correctly is to experiment it, experience that vision.

31:20.516 --> 31:24.920
[SPEAKER_01]: And I've seen so many people who are so like locked in the box and you're like,

31:25.541 --> 31:27.081
[SPEAKER_01]: I think there's more to life that I knew.

31:27.481 --> 31:29.762
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like that part of the movie, Dr.

31:29.802 --> 31:30.482
[SPEAKER_01]: Strange, right?

31:30.722 --> 31:40.724
[SPEAKER_01]: She goes to the ancient one, and then she's like, give me the healing or whatever, and then she gives him the vision, and then he's like, please teach me, we're gonna actually teach him out.

31:41.104 --> 31:42.104
[SPEAKER_01]: But it's kind of like that.

31:42.205 --> 31:50.526
[SPEAKER_01]: It's something that it just comes out of nowhere, and it's difficult to explain something that's out of even our imagination.

31:51.226 --> 31:53.647
[SPEAKER_01]: Imagine something that you can't imagine, you know?

31:54.232 --> 32:06.435
[SPEAKER_01]: I was like at that age right there and it's something that people have that leap of face sometimes you're going to go experience it hopefully in a safe way and it's definitely a very life changing.

32:07.873 --> 32:34.993
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it is a leap of faith is a great way to phrase it because the first time you're sitting in this yurt I'll get I'll paint your picture So where we were is beautiful, but for whatever reason, you know, it's the stormiest night in the fucking history of the world And so the you know, we're in this yurt and it is just I mean like a movie how heavy it's raining and lightning and the thunder is shaking the earth

32:35.733 --> 32:43.840
[SPEAKER_00]: And we're in their pitch black with a single candle in the middle of the room where they're Administrating the medicine and I'm just like you gotta be fucking kidding.

32:43.860 --> 32:45.241
[SPEAKER_00]: You can't make this up.

32:45.561 --> 32:46.182
[SPEAKER_00]: You know what I mean?

32:46.802 --> 32:47.723
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm sitting there.

32:47.843 --> 32:50.385
[SPEAKER_00]: I think on the first night, I went.

32:51.946 --> 32:52.387
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

32:53.748 --> 32:55.629
[SPEAKER_00]: So I wasn't first and I wasn't last.

32:55.649 --> 32:58.912
[SPEAKER_00]: I was to learn the in the front side of the medicine.

32:59.967 --> 33:02.397
[SPEAKER_00]: And I go up there, I take mine.

33:03.461 --> 33:05.890
[SPEAKER_00]: You have to have a leap of faith to get to that moment.

33:06.950 --> 33:16.372
[SPEAKER_00]: where you're like, okay, I'm gonna do this thing right here, which is crazy, which also, you know, it's probably the worst thing I've ever tasted in my entire life.

33:16.432 --> 33:17.933
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, I'm happy to discuss it.

33:17.973 --> 33:19.653
[SPEAKER_00]: Like fucking horrible.

33:20.113 --> 33:21.514
[SPEAKER_00]: Right, so now you're like, take it to sleep.

33:21.714 --> 33:25.915
[SPEAKER_00]: You're like, all right, I'm gonna go drink fucking dirt, basically, right?

33:26.335 --> 33:28.556
[SPEAKER_00]: And this plant and God knows what's in it.

33:28.696 --> 33:33.177
[SPEAKER_00]: And all these people are about to puke and throw up and shit their pants.

33:33.797 --> 33:44.243
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to lay here and find God and forgive my mother and let go of the shit that happened to me and then wake up tomorrow and fucking do it again, bro, you got to have a leap of faith.

33:44.263 --> 33:49.146
[SPEAKER_00]: Like you've got to have something inside of you that has a little bit of trust.

33:49.946 --> 33:53.148
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that I think that people feel like

33:54.923 --> 34:11.745
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't want to speak for everybody, but I can speak from a lot of the experiences that I've had talking about this with people who have partaken is that there's this really amazing sense of community that comes along with it because it's a bunch of people who are like

34:12.912 --> 34:13.313
[SPEAKER_00]: fuck it.

34:13.753 --> 34:14.454
[SPEAKER_00]: You know what I mean?

34:14.474 --> 34:18.058
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that to some capacity do you have to have that?

34:18.459 --> 34:23.325
[SPEAKER_00]: Here's what I noticed when we were kind of in and obviously I'm not going to share details.

34:23.385 --> 34:24.566
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm sharing this from very high level.

34:25.587 --> 34:31.114
[SPEAKER_00]: But in conversations with people, I noticed two things to be true.

34:31.953 --> 34:40.182
[SPEAKER_00]: The people who let go and just accepted whatever was about to happen, had amazing, beautiful experiences.

34:40.543 --> 34:42.465
[SPEAKER_00]: I walked into it from that perspective.

34:42.845 --> 34:48.331
[SPEAKER_00]: I was just like, Jesus, take the will, like whatever is about to happen, let it happen, right?

34:49.172 --> 34:52.154
[SPEAKER_00]: And then there's the people who they're white knuckling it.

34:52.374 --> 34:53.835
[SPEAKER_00]: They're like, I'm going to control it.

34:53.895 --> 34:56.096
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm only going to let so much of this medicine in.

34:56.376 --> 34:57.496
[SPEAKER_00]: Don't try to change me.

34:57.737 --> 35:08.362
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm doing this because my husband, my wife, my boyfriend, my partner, my, my business associate, my cousin, my third uncle said I should do it and do those people have the worst experiences.

35:08.762 --> 35:11.484
[SPEAKER_00]: And I've just seen it time and time and time again.

35:12.384 --> 35:18.249
[SPEAKER_00]: So I want to go into this leap of faith, conversation a little bit more because I really think there's some truth in that.

35:18.789 --> 35:20.871
[SPEAKER_00]: Why do you think that that's the reality?

35:20.971 --> 35:28.617
[SPEAKER_00]: You got this group of people who are like, I'm going to let go and they tend to have a more peaceful, I still have a couple hard moments, but it was more peaceful than most people.

35:29.257 --> 35:32.219
[SPEAKER_00]: And then you have the people who are like holding on for your life.

35:32.860 --> 35:36.883
[SPEAKER_00]: What is happening there, why they're having such two such very different

35:38.870 --> 35:40.330
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, let me ask you a question.

35:40.370 --> 35:46.151
[SPEAKER_01]: Are you a person who's like a nationality, a risk teacher, a kind of a person who likes to leave on an age a bit or now?

35:46.291 --> 35:47.912
[SPEAKER_00]: No, not really, man.

35:47.952 --> 35:52.713
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, and people will say, well, you're an entrepreneur in your business owner and I've been to 50 countries and I've traveled the world.

35:52.993 --> 35:54.913
[SPEAKER_00]: It's all very calculated.

35:55.293 --> 35:56.313
[SPEAKER_00]: Like I think about it all.

35:56.673 --> 35:57.294
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't trust me.

35:57.334 --> 36:01.234
[SPEAKER_00]: I have my moments, but generally speaking, it's very, I think about all of it.

36:01.414 --> 36:03.955
[SPEAKER_00]: Everything that I do, there's a purpose behind it.

36:05.031 --> 36:06.651
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, you'll never see me skydive.

36:06.771 --> 36:08.712
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not jumping out of a fucking airplane.

36:08.752 --> 36:09.892
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not bungee jumping.

36:09.912 --> 36:11.613
[SPEAKER_00]: I have no inch.

36:11.633 --> 36:13.773
[SPEAKER_00]: That's probably because I used to work for insurance companies.

36:13.793 --> 36:15.174
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's probably why I don't do that.

36:15.614 --> 36:17.514
[SPEAKER_00]: But I know I'm not like that.

36:17.554 --> 36:19.635
[SPEAKER_00]: That's not my nature to be a risk taker.

36:19.655 --> 36:20.995
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm okay.

36:21.495 --> 36:21.695
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

36:21.775 --> 36:30.178
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, um, early on when we talked about this is some people come to it because they're desperate and they don't have any option at fitting to death category.

36:30.218 --> 36:31.558
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, okay, let's go do it, right?

36:31.898 --> 36:36.943
[SPEAKER_01]: But when I did it, my first experience, I resisted very much so, right?

36:37.103 --> 36:42.188
[SPEAKER_01]: And most of it, because I, my own struggle personally was that I, that moment, I didn't want to be seen.

36:42.688 --> 36:43.549
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't want to be held.

36:44.029 --> 36:45.731
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't want to talk my stick my truth.

36:46.292 --> 36:50.435
[SPEAKER_01]: I just want this pain to go there and go home and it would seem perfect.

36:50.495 --> 36:52.357
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's why I suffered a lot too.

36:52.377 --> 36:53.098
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you.

36:53.338 --> 37:10.052
[SPEAKER_01]: But I think from where I am today, I don't look at the participants that they had a great experience and people who don't, I mean, especially early on, they struggle and then eventually they get along with it is that it's all about also a bit of a nervous system, right?

37:10.432 --> 37:14.896
[SPEAKER_01]: So some people might come to it and tell me, like, oh, I have no anxiety of the ceremony.

37:14.956 --> 37:16.677
[SPEAKER_01]: I want to go in there and they're going there and just

37:17.938 --> 37:22.303
[SPEAKER_01]: and there are some other people who go into that and they let go.

37:22.744 --> 37:27.169
[SPEAKER_01]: I think some of part of it has to do with also the idea of the threshold, right?

37:27.769 --> 37:36.840
[SPEAKER_01]: If early on, especially people hit their threshold too soon, too much, too fast, it will feel like they're getting molested by something.

37:37.240 --> 37:37.460
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.

37:37.760 --> 37:41.422
[SPEAKER_01]: It feels like somebody's dragging them and they just don't want to let go.

37:41.642 --> 37:41.862
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.

37:42.142 --> 37:44.183
[SPEAKER_01]: The body has some natural level of fear.

37:44.483 --> 37:44.683
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.

37:44.703 --> 37:45.543
[SPEAKER_01]: We want to survive.

37:45.743 --> 37:47.924
[SPEAKER_01]: We all have some natural level of resistance.

37:47.944 --> 37:48.884
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just going to be there.

37:49.084 --> 37:49.325
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.

37:49.645 --> 37:59.468
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just that if the person reaches their threshold that they can no longer cope and the issue of the dosage, that makes it biggest different from most people.

37:59.889 --> 38:04.230
[SPEAKER_01]: So if they slow this way, go toward it, that will be really good.

38:04.490 --> 38:05.851
[SPEAKER_01]: But there are also times.

38:06.475 --> 38:08.336
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, and that makes it a tricky, right?

38:08.576 --> 38:09.377
[SPEAKER_01]: You got to root the room.

38:09.397 --> 38:17.861
[SPEAKER_01]: You got to really fill that person energy is that there are people that the best thing for them is to give them a very high dose right away.

38:18.782 --> 38:19.502
[SPEAKER_01]: That also happens.

38:20.183 --> 38:24.565
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's not something I personally project with my, but people come to my retreat, right?

38:24.885 --> 38:28.467
[SPEAKER_01]: But I have friends who are kind of a mistake here, right?

38:28.747 --> 38:31.289
[SPEAKER_01]: And they know, naturally, they get a resistance.

38:32.222 --> 38:40.530
[SPEAKER_01]: Right, so they go there and say, right away, please give me the strongest medicine in the highest amount of bills because I know nothing else is going to help me to break through.

38:40.790 --> 38:41.631
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm where resistant.

38:42.252 --> 38:51.841
[SPEAKER_01]: Right, and there's this like two ideas should we go slow these loading both the trust and going or should we drop it in so you don't have a chance to resist.

38:53.043 --> 38:55.785
[SPEAKER_01]: And so that becomes like a two different approach.

38:56.486 --> 39:04.893
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that if you want to be safe and you don't want to, you know, have a, I guess, definitely out of negative reputation, you should probably once we could choose to grow this safe, right?

39:05.353 --> 39:11.118
[SPEAKER_01]: And then if they have that relationship with that person, they know their nervous system, they can regulate to get it really well.

39:11.498 --> 39:16.462
[SPEAKER_01]: Then they will like, okay, if you want a stronger medicine, I'll hook you up, we can't go in and I will help you back, you know.

39:16.802 --> 39:18.423
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that's important that we do that.

39:24.022 --> 39:26.643
[SPEAKER_00]: Plenty of people, lots of people should not do it.

39:26.663 --> 39:36.469
[SPEAKER_01]: Do these some examples borderline personalities get to frame you by polar especially type to a lot of different challenges.

39:36.529 --> 39:38.710
[SPEAKER_01]: People have a second, a second, a second, a second problem.

39:38.730 --> 39:41.692
[SPEAKER_01]: People have a medication, a certain type of medication that will

39:44.673 --> 39:54.240
[SPEAKER_01]: people who had serious active stage of trauma, people who had suicidal ideation, recently, special had thoughts of suicide recently.

39:54.300 --> 39:56.662
[SPEAKER_01]: These are people that they should be very careful.

39:56.962 --> 40:01.886
[SPEAKER_01]: People especially were very difficult place, and they don't have that support mechanism, back home, especially when they go home.

40:02.346 --> 40:06.369
[SPEAKER_01]: They should figure out the support mechanism first before they've been drinking medicine.

40:06.709 --> 40:09.692
[SPEAKER_01]: So these are some of it, but the list is a lot much longer.

40:10.052 --> 40:11.293
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'll share something here.

40:11.693 --> 40:16.138
[SPEAKER_01]: that I have a seizure disorder, I have epilepsy myself, right?

40:16.558 --> 40:21.062
[SPEAKER_01]: And according to the list, I'm not supposed to drink ayahuasca by drinking ayahuasca all the time.

40:21.463 --> 40:28.430
[SPEAKER_01]: And if I did one of reason my seizure stopped is because I drink ayahuasca that allowed me to regulate my nervous system.

40:29.737 --> 40:33.381
[SPEAKER_01]: Of course, it wouldn't fit him into what a doctor would say.

40:33.802 --> 40:35.924
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, do somebody come to me and say, hey, I'm epilepsy.

40:35.944 --> 40:37.186
[SPEAKER_01]: Can you let me drink Ayahuasca?

40:37.907 --> 40:40.550
[SPEAKER_01]: My thing will like, I can't do that, right?

40:40.610 --> 40:44.174
[SPEAKER_01]: But when I decide to do that, I admire neurologists with me psychiatrists.

40:44.214 --> 40:44.915
[SPEAKER_01]: I talk to them.

40:45.315 --> 40:47.437
[SPEAKER_01]: then I went there and I had my experience.

40:47.757 --> 41:03.872
[SPEAKER_01]: So there are times that people like me who fit into this like okay these are the box of people who should not drink but they eventually have it and it's very good for them but it's very rare and it's kind of in a very dangerous zone so yeah there's a bit

41:05.773 --> 41:12.138
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, a lot of the list you rattled off there, you know, I backed myself into some of those things too.

41:12.639 --> 41:17.783
[SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, I think at the end of the day we're adults, we have to make the decision that we feel right for ourselves.

41:18.443 --> 41:26.009
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's why, especially, I think if you have medical things, that's why I love you guys have that medical intake and different protocols to keep people safe.

41:26.730 --> 41:30.032
[SPEAKER_00]: If what I would caution people against is like this idea

41:31.013 --> 41:34.575
[SPEAKER_00]: you just wake up one day and you're like, hey, we're going to go to this house party and do I lost him?

41:34.615 --> 41:36.516
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, that's probably not a good idea.

41:38.097 --> 41:38.757
[SPEAKER_00]: Talk to me.

41:39.498 --> 41:42.199
[SPEAKER_00]: Talk to me about why you decided to start your retreat.

41:42.799 --> 41:43.800
[SPEAKER_00]: What's in it for you?

41:43.920 --> 41:45.121
[SPEAKER_00]: Why is it important to you?

41:45.161 --> 41:46.121
[SPEAKER_00]: Why does it matter?

41:46.802 --> 41:48.302
[SPEAKER_00]: What are the things behind the why?

41:51.864 --> 42:04.239
[SPEAKER_01]: Part of it was that my depression that I was especially struggled with was very tied to my need for meaning in life.

42:04.780 --> 42:06.823
[SPEAKER_01]: It was a bit of existential dread that I had.

42:07.403 --> 42:09.844
[SPEAKER_01]: And I was like trading stocks and things like that.

42:09.864 --> 42:13.845
[SPEAKER_01]: I was just doing it and that wasn't for me, right?

42:13.925 --> 42:16.706
[SPEAKER_01]: And I was left in a place like what am I supposed to do, right?

42:16.766 --> 42:22.108
[SPEAKER_01]: What am I supposed to, uh, I became an entrepreneur just because I wanted to have a retreat.

42:22.128 --> 42:22.728
[SPEAKER_01]: Double-cheat.

42:23.128 --> 42:32.251
[SPEAKER_01]: And I really wanted to do it right by the people, especially native people, because as I was going through this journey, I saw a lot of people doing a lot of things that were questionable.

42:32.711 --> 42:40.694
[SPEAKER_01]: Right, I saw places that were sexually abused, there I saw places where the healers are not getting paid at all.

42:41.955 --> 42:45.837
[SPEAKER_01]: And a lot of different things that it just kind of pissed me off to be honest.

42:45.997 --> 42:47.577
[SPEAKER_01]: I was very annoyed.

42:47.797 --> 42:52.119
[SPEAKER_01]: I was trying to get some experience with some of these organizations.

42:52.539 --> 42:59.963
[SPEAKER_01]: People got tailed, people were died and seeing all that kind of stuff that just annoyed me so much and I was like,

43:00.963 --> 43:01.604
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to do this.

43:02.184 --> 43:04.506
[SPEAKER_01]: I do my best to not to be not like that.

43:04.606 --> 43:05.647
[SPEAKER_01]: Do my best to be better.

43:05.887 --> 43:06.087
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.

43:06.107 --> 43:06.447
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not.

43:06.527 --> 43:07.808
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not going to say I'm going to be perfect.

43:08.309 --> 43:09.009
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to be better.

43:09.810 --> 43:14.274
[SPEAKER_01]: And, and they will treat part was mostly because of that.

43:14.534 --> 43:18.237
[SPEAKER_01]: But my desire to work with the medicine, which is something that's pulled me in.

43:18.617 --> 43:21.920
[SPEAKER_01]: I just want to learn because early on, I just wanted this for me.

43:22.520 --> 43:22.780
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.

43:23.100 --> 43:24.221
[SPEAKER_01]: I want to learn about it.

43:24.301 --> 43:25.302
[SPEAKER_01]: I want to learn about me.

43:25.382 --> 43:26.303
[SPEAKER_01]: I want to do it for me.

43:26.623 --> 43:28.604
[SPEAKER_01]: But then more, I'm in a de-more medicine.

43:28.624 --> 43:29.445
[SPEAKER_01]: It's kind of pushing me.

43:29.465 --> 43:36.169
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like, actually, I have to, you can help other people so it's like, fine, and eventually go to this place.

43:36.209 --> 43:37.410
[SPEAKER_01]: I'll get a list to this retreat.

43:37.991 --> 43:43.975
[SPEAKER_01]: And I want to work with people on areas, especially that they're lesser known, but they have such good medicine.

43:44.675 --> 43:54.657
[SPEAKER_01]: So I met a special input to my, which is like a gem is underrated gem because for so many years Colombia had so much wars and problems and a lot of people could not even come to put.

43:55.337 --> 44:03.499
[SPEAKER_01]: So it didn't become as like a tourist hub like EG tools or all those other pro call about all the areas that very I was going out, right?

44:03.839 --> 44:07.200
[SPEAKER_01]: So for that reason, it's just a lot of traditions are untouched.

44:07.907 --> 44:12.549
[SPEAKER_01]: that we have about 7,000 people of a truck that I work with.

44:13.229 --> 44:14.550
[SPEAKER_01]: So try that there is still a line.

44:14.910 --> 44:17.431
[SPEAKER_01]: The coal fund tribe has about 1,500 people.

44:17.752 --> 44:19.092
[SPEAKER_01]: They're going to go extinct.

44:20.353 --> 44:27.516
[SPEAKER_01]: If we don't bring some level of prosperity to these people, if we're not going to share it with them, if we're not going to learn.

44:27.556 --> 44:31.278
[SPEAKER_01]: If we're not going to talk about what they have, can you respect it a little way?

44:32.649 --> 44:34.210
[SPEAKER_01]: The world would not know, right?

44:34.450 --> 44:38.951
[SPEAKER_01]: There's this beautiful documentary on Netflix and the last children.

44:39.532 --> 44:40.472
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if you watched that.

44:40.512 --> 44:41.512
[SPEAKER_01]: I highly recommend it.

44:41.612 --> 44:47.034
[SPEAKER_01]: It's about this children that they were lost in the Amazon 40 days because they were playing crashed, right?

44:47.054 --> 44:47.715
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a true story.

44:48.655 --> 44:51.176
[SPEAKER_01]: And the Colombian military tried to find it and they can.

44:51.236 --> 44:56.478
[SPEAKER_01]: And the last thing they do is they drink the Ayahuasca and then they'll find the kids with that.

44:57.276 --> 45:06.780
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's one of the most beautiful stories I think, yeah, after that, that got out, a lot of people are like, oh, Colombia, yeah, hey, more interest people show and how about that.

45:07.101 --> 45:12.323
[SPEAKER_01]: So finally, hearing the stories of these people, there's a lot of beautiful thing these people have.

45:12.703 --> 45:23.088
[SPEAKER_01]: And that is, I mean, yeah, hey, I also is great, but they're culture, they're wisdom, the way they live is so many, so many beautiful things that is here, I would love for people to see and experience.

45:24.722 --> 45:25.402
[SPEAKER_00]: That's beautiful.

45:25.442 --> 45:28.424
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I, that's kind of how this whole thing started.

45:28.565 --> 45:37.150
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I looked at the world 10 years ago when I started thinking broken and you know, there was nobody helping people at that time.

45:37.170 --> 45:38.171
[SPEAKER_00]: It's very different now.

45:38.371 --> 45:43.154
[SPEAKER_00]: But you know, more of the very first childhood trauma coaches authors podcast hosts in the world.

45:43.815 --> 45:46.997
[SPEAKER_00]: And it was just because I saw this opportunity to help people.

45:47.337 --> 45:51.899
[SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, I'm still on my journey, dude, I'm still like fucking shit up constantly.

45:51.999 --> 46:05.444
[SPEAKER_00]: But it's like, you know, you go and you make the steps and take the strides to try to make the world a better place to do things the right way, to help people, to help yourself, to be prosperous and productive.

46:05.744 --> 46:10.306
[SPEAKER_00]: And sometimes it only comes from looking at the problem of the thing right in front of you.

46:10.426 --> 46:14.827
[SPEAKER_00]: And I love that your approach to this is so much different

46:16.608 --> 46:42.928
[SPEAKER_00]: you saw a lot that wasn't right and that wasn't fair and that wasn't working and you know you've seen the experiences too, been there yourself in a room of 100 people and having this really uncomfortable and unfair journey and then you see these documentaries on YouTube about you know the the rapes and pillages and the horrible treatment of the tribal people and you're sitting here you're like, hey, I'm gonna do something different.

46:43.728 --> 46:49.772
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that that was the thing that attracted me to have this conversation with you because I was like, man, I don't care about their treat.

46:49.853 --> 46:50.533
[SPEAKER_00]: Fuck the retreat.

46:50.553 --> 46:51.634
[SPEAKER_00]: There's a million of treats.

46:51.934 --> 46:52.975
[SPEAKER_00]: Are you doing it right?

46:53.455 --> 46:54.636
[SPEAKER_00]: Are you doing it because you care?

46:54.656 --> 46:57.318
[SPEAKER_00]: Are you doing it because you want to make people's lives better?

46:57.918 --> 47:01.181
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, and that was the same experience I had from the retreat that I went to.

47:01.661 --> 47:05.204
[SPEAKER_00]: And as I'm planning to go and partake again, it's like, I know where I'm going.

47:05.444 --> 47:05.604
[SPEAKER_00]: Right?

47:05.624 --> 47:06.905
[SPEAKER_00]: You're going to find me on Mahadev.

47:06.925 --> 47:07.265
[SPEAKER_00]: You're like,

47:07.345 --> 47:10.666
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, that's what's in front of me, you know what I mean?

47:10.706 --> 47:17.687
[SPEAKER_00]: And so, you know, I, I have no affiliate or affiliation to what happens next for people who come into this with you.

47:17.747 --> 47:27.049
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's like, I, I was thinking about this because I asked you this when we first talked and I wanted to understand all of this from your perspective.

47:27.729 --> 47:34.551
[SPEAKER_00]: And when I was deciding whether or not to have you on the show, the one thing in the back of my head was like, what I go to this retreat?

47:35.608 --> 47:37.569
[SPEAKER_00]: because I'll show you the spreadsheet.

47:37.589 --> 47:38.470
[SPEAKER_00]: It's fucking crazy.

47:38.490 --> 47:49.057
[SPEAKER_00]: Like I literally wrote like 40 different retreats across the world and I started writing down occupancy, medical care, psychiatric care, notes, how are they on their call?

47:49.097 --> 47:50.478
[SPEAKER_00]: What was the energy like?

47:50.798 --> 47:51.979
[SPEAKER_00]: What are the reviews like?

47:52.059 --> 47:53.600
[SPEAKER_00]: Do they have content online?

47:53.620 --> 47:57.642
[SPEAKER_00]: Like I did this huge, huge deep dive, and this was many, many years ago.

47:58.163 --> 48:01.285
[SPEAKER_00]: But my point is as I dive into looking at now,

48:01.845 --> 48:09.230
[SPEAKER_00]: Man, I can't speak to your experience in your retreat because I haven't been there, but it's certainly the next place that I'm gonna visit.

48:10.131 --> 48:23.460
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm curious, before we start to wrap up because I know we're running out of time here, but one of the things I thought was really fascinating is that you procure your Ayahuasca way differently than anyone else.

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[SPEAKER_00]: and I would love for you to talk about that because I think all the imagery that we see is here's a bunch of plants in a boiling cauldron like some witches you know running and putting spells on it and they mush it out and you drink it and and you guys do it just from such a different way explain that to us just because I don't remember exactly how you how you told me about it but I want you to remind me.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I think you talk about the crude oil.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I think the one that is not a cooked medicine version, I think.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we have this very different of a formal preparation of your head that is very unique to Kutomayo.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, I was good.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Doesn't need to be cooked for it to be affected.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Now, that taste that you talk about is really difficult to have.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I was doesn't need to have that.

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[SPEAKER_01]: actually.

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[SPEAKER_01]: The way that comes up people do it is that they remove all of the bark completely.

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[SPEAKER_01]: They chop it down to small pieces and they smash it for hours and hours and hours and guys that are huge.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not necessarily a big guy.

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[SPEAKER_01]: They give up.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Oh my god, it's so hard.

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[SPEAKER_01]: right, and then they put the leaves, the chagras, and then they smash that for hours.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And then they mix them together, and when it comes out, right, it's just like vegetable juice.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Taste like vegetable juice, right?

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[SPEAKER_01]: And you drink that, it will have the same effect as the iron, there's iron loss, there's no difference.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And the benefit of that, I would say, is a bit colder, so it's not as hot as the yaha, the cooked version.

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[SPEAKER_01]: It's a bit easier and stomach, and it's a bit crispness, nausea.

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[SPEAKER_01]: It can be as strong as the cooked version.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And a lot of my friends who've been drinking, I was with a long time, and they're like, dude, I still haven't got over the taste of what I was.

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[SPEAKER_01]: All of this stuff.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to tell you, I'm like, I'm there with you.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I'm just glad that I have crude oil here.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I could drink that.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And if I want to help cook sometimes, I feel guilty.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, oh my god, this is too easy now.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm just going to grab some cook medicine just for to honor the path and just like I'm going to stick to so the old memories, but that that's something's really neat.

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[SPEAKER_01]: It's very beautiful.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And I think this July retreat, we actually have a group of people that we're going to go and make the medicine together.

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[SPEAKER_01]: We're going to make a medicine to get our entire community.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I was going to guide people talk about the plants.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So it's going to be amazing experience.

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[SPEAKER_00]: man that's awesome.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I think it'd be fun to make it like that seems like something.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I would have to assume to it probably is just such a different experience to have made it yourself and to bear what's to that.

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[SPEAKER_00]: You know, we got to solve them make it, but like I didn't get a part of Tissapate.

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[SPEAKER_00]: It would have been nice too, you know, so anyway, before I ask you my last question, where can everyone find you learn more about the retreats and most importantly, be able to connect and and get on calls and answer questions and all that stuff.

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[SPEAKER_01]: For sure, I mean, just going to our website, Mahadev, I will ask you.com.

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[SPEAKER_01]: That's where you did you have information about every treat.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I'm medicine major, which is coming up.

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[SPEAKER_01]: We also have the I wascal framework.

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[SPEAKER_01]: They can find our website is a complete educational.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Under 90 men as we try and to explain, I will ask you to have a very eight-type rational mindset.

51:30.972 --> 51:32.312
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's because there's so it's there.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And if you go to think unbrokenpodcast.com, you will of course find that and more in the show notes.

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[SPEAKER_00]: My last question for my friend.

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[SPEAKER_00]: What does it mean to you to be unbroken?

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[SPEAKER_01]: To be unbroken, you should accept all my broken pieces inside of me and just just leave my life and find joy and happiness with everything as it is complete acceptance.

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[SPEAKER_00]: beautifully said.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and I hope that for those of you who are listening, if you have not found that piece and that acceptance, see what you can do plant a plant medicine is this beautiful experience that I think Mary is really well to doing the work.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think it is the work.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that's the place where people get lost and they misconstrued what it really is and what it's about.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And so I would encourage you to take some time to do deeper in your own journey.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And then to have a call with Yasha or someone like him and find out whether or not this is for you because

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[SPEAKER_00]: I'll tell you this on the backside of my experience, not only do I make a couple amazing friends, but also it transform me in ways that I can't even begin to say.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Many of things that are secret for me and I won't ever make public, but many things I have and I've shared with you guys over the years.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And so if this is something that feels like it might honor your journey even further, it might be your sign.

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[SPEAKER_00]: That said, thank you so much for listening, Yasha, thank you for being here.

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[SPEAKER_00]: My friends, take care of yourselves, take care of each other, and until next time, be unbroken.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I'll see ya.